Don’t forget, you can listen to the podcast version of this post on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify. Keep scrolling to read the transcript.
Hello and welcome to a very belated blog version of the The Rest Room – a podcast about living well with chronic illness.
In this episode, I’m joined by the brilliant New York Times bestselling author of steamy, diverse romance, Talia Hibbert.
Her latest book is “Act Your Age, Eve Brown”, an autistic romance, and her first book “Get a Life, Chloe Brown” features a protagonist living with Fibromyalgia.
Talia says she “lives in a bedroom full of books. Supposedly, there is a world beyond that room, but she has yet to drum up enough interest to investigate,” and ooh is that relatable!
We take a deep dive into how she became an author, the role her chronic illnesses play in how she works, what it’s like writing characters inspired by your personal experiences, “incidental” diversity (inspired by Olivia Dade talking about incidental fat rep), and much more.
Even if writing isn’t something you’re interested in as a career or hobby, we discuss aspects of living and working with chronic illness that I’m sure will hit home for many!
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope you do too!
This episode couldn’t have happened without the editing skills of Amit Rai, the transcription by Evangeline Talbot, and the art by Shona Sawhney.
TRANSCRIPT
Natasha Lipman
Hello and welcome to The Rest Room. A podcast about living well with chronic illness. I’m your host Natasha Lipman.
Last episode, we explored how to read more while living with the challenges of chronic illness. Be that how to read, what to read, or where to read, there are so many tips and tricks that can help make reading a more manageable part of your life.
In today’s episode, I’m joined by the brilliant New York Times bestselling author Talia Hibbert, for a wide-ranging discussion all about writing, writing with a chronic illness, and writing diverse characters.
This episode was recorded a while back, so I’m really excited to be able to release it now.
As always, you can find a transcript linked in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and consider leaving a review on your podcast hosting platform of choice! You can find me across social media @natashalipman.
Please enjoy this conversation with Talia.
Thank you so much for joining me today. I’m really looking forward to chatting with you.
Talia Hibbert
Thank you for having me. I’m excited.
Natasha Lipman
Could you introduce yourself a little bit to anyone who doesn’t know your work?
Talia Hibbert
So I’m Talia Hibbert and I write sexy, diverse romance. I’ve written quite a few books now. And my latest series is just finished, it’s three romcoms about three sisters finding love. And basically, I just really like writing people who care about each other. So that’s what I tried to do.
Natasha Lipman
That’s one of the things that I got the most from your books is, I felt that they’re very emotionally intelligent books that you come out of it becoming a better person and learning how to communicate with others and better understand people.
Talia Hibbert
Awww!
*laughter*
Natasha Lipman
It’s funny, actually, because I’ve never read romance books before, and I demolished your book. So I was really excited to be able to talk about them. In your bio, you talked about how you live in a bedroom full of books, and there’s a world beyond that room, but you’ve yet to drum up enough interest to investigate it. With that, how have you found everything that’s been going on with COVID? How have you been?
Talia Hibbert
It’s been odd, because, you know, it’s kind of like the most boring thing that’s ever happened, but also the most stressful thing that’s ever happened simultaneously. I was talking to someone the other day who said, it’s like watching paint dry with a gun to your head, which I really liked. *Talia laughs*
And it’s definitely kind of stifled my creativity in a way that made me appreciate how much you know, I am introverted, and I do like to stay at home. But when I do kind of venture outside, usually just to observe people rather than to be in the thick of it. I’m realising now how much that kind of inspires me and makes me happy and keeps me going, you know, now that it’s been taken away.
Natasha Lipman
So, *pause* I don’t know where to start, because there’s so many things I could ask you! *Talia laughs*
So how did you get into writing?
Talia Hibbert
I’ve always loved to write because I always loved to read. And I feel like for a lot of people that goes hand in hand, you know, as a kid reading was pretty much my only hobby. And I think, you know, I never wrote or published fanfic, but I think fanfic really illustrates how reading inspires a lot of people to write because you just want to keep those stories going.
So, you know, when I reached the point where I decided that I needed to work to get a job, and ideally, to be able to do it from home, and to work for myself, because of my needs. I was like, okay, what is a skill that I have, and the only thing I could come up with was writing. *Talia laughs* So that’s what I did.
Natasha Lipman
And luckily, it’s a skill that works very well at home.
Talia Hibbert
*Talia laughs* Exactly.
Natasha Lipman
Are you comfortable talking a little bit about your needs? To give people an idea?
Talia Hibbert
Yeah, sure. So I have fibromyalgia and I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. And, you know, because of that, working as a teenager and just going to school and trying to maintain my hobbies, because I used to be very athletic, I slowly realised that not only are there things I physically can’t do, there are a lot of environments I can’t be in.
Even when people tell you that it’s fine and accommodations are going to be made and they understand and accept it. You know, two weeks later, they’re saying “Oh, can you just move that box for me?” and if you awkwardly say, “I can’t,” they’re like, “Why?”, and you’re the difficult one, or you have to kind of give too much personal information about your pain and your feelings to people so that they might possibly believe you. And I just, yeah, I’m not doing that.
So, when I was coming up to my final year in university, I was getting really panicked, you know, because I knew that soon I was going to need a job. And I was like, I don’t know what’s going to be safe for me to do, you know, I don’t know where I can go that people aren’t going to expect things of me that are just not safe or healthy. So I really wanted to create a working environment for myself that was sustainable.
Natasha Lipman
How did you go about doing that? Because I have EDS as well. So the box thing- oh, God, yeah, memories. *Talia laughs* But also, it’s something that I find hard to give advice on sometimes with writing from home, because I feel so fortunate that I’ve been able to make this my career. So I’d be really curious how, kind of from university, you were able to develop your career?
Talia Hibbert
Well, the main thing was, you know, I decided I wanted to write, I figured out quite quickly that I wanted to write romance, because romance has always been pretty much the only thing I read, and I love it. And so it just seemed natural and sensible to work in that area.
And so the options I had were trying to be traditionally published, or self publishing, which I had discovered because some of my favourite romance authors were doing it. And being traditionally published just didn’t seem likely for me for several reasons. And also, it was quite a long process and I didn’t have a lot of time; I wanted to know if this was gonna work before the year ended and my student loan ran out, and I was kind of, you know, stuck.
So I decided to self publish. And I kind of took that book by book, learning new things with every release. And, you know, I’m very lucky that a lot of authors who self published for some reason, they are just so happy to share all their skills and their research with people. So that was so helpful to me, and I probably couldn’t have done it without those resources.
But at the same time, it wasn’t easy, because my research suggested – I’m kind of very research oriented – I’m like, “How can I do this? I found a list, I’m gonna follow the list.” My research suggested that I needed to publish very quickly. And obviously, there are problems with that, like, when I type or write, there’s only so much that I can physically do before, you know, joints start popping out of place.
So I had to figure out how to write very fast, without really hurting myself. And to be honest, at first, I was quite bad at that. I was usually writing in bed because I couldn’t get up; I was not sleeping, because, you know, I was writing and then taking a break until my hands felt better and then writing again, no matter what the time was, or how long it took. So it was very difficult, but I kept telling myself, “Long term, this is gonna be good. Just hold on!”
And it did work out. But I wouldn’t advise anyone else to be quite that single minded. It was very unhealthy. But I was like, 21. So I was like, this is fine! *Talia laughs*
Natasha Lipman
How did you kind of develop your understanding of how to take your EDS into consideration while you were writing? Because I think that’s something that a lot of people struggle with, especially not even just when you want to do something, when you need to do something. How do you balance those two things now?
Talia Hibbert
First, I had to kind of start treating myself better, because I’d been thinking, “I don’t want to work because people are gonna expect some things from me.” But now I was my own boss and I was also expecting certain things for me. *Talia laughs*
You know, there’s always a lot of guilt. Like if I only work three hours a day, I’m like, “I’m so lazy, and I don’t deserve to be able to have a job like this.” And it’s like, why? There is no moral superiority in working harder or hurting yourself for work. And it took me a while to kind of accept them and learn a lot of the ableist ideas I had about work.
So I had to start thinking of myself the way I’d think of someone else who worked for me, instead of being just unreasonably hard on myself the way I never worked on anyone else. And I also had to just really respect my needs as like a hard line and learn them properly and always plan to take them into account.
Natasha Lipman
That’s such a hard thing to do as well, isn’t it, especially when your income is really tied to your ability to produce? *laughter*
So you first self published? Can you tell me a little bit about the process with your current series with Eve, Danny and Chloe?
Talia Hibbert
Yeah, so, I got an agent after self publishing a few books. And initially, she was like, “I can help you sell separate audio rights and foreign rights and things of your self published work.” And I was like, “That’s great.” And she was like, “And also, you know, we can try and traditionally publish something, because I think you’d do great.” And I was really nervous about that.
So I was kind of like, “Yeah, okay,” and then just didn’t do it. And she kept being like, “Hey, where are we at on that? Do you still want to, you know?” So in the end, I was like, “God, I either need to be like, no, or do something.”
So I decided to just give it a go, because I like to try things. And I kind of thought it would be cool if I actually wrote about a heroine who had a disability. So I sat down and thought about how fun it would be to write a rom com about someone living with chronic pain. Because there’s a lot of funny moments to be found, I think, *Talia laughs* when you’re handling things, and you’re doing it in very weird ways. And if you stop and think about it, you’re like, this is objectively hilarious.
So I really wanted to get that across. And I was kind of pleasantly surprised when it sold. And it was a series that was picked up by Avon. And I really, really enjoyed it, you know, so much so that I just actually signed on to do another series with them.
Because the process- there was a learning curve, and again, I kind of had to unlearn some things like I didn’t always want to admit when I didn’t understand things. And because I’d been publishing people would assume that I did understand something, and I wouldn’t want to be like, “No, please help!” So I had to get over that. But once I did, I did find it a positive experience, yeah.
And it was cool not having to do everything myself. But on the other hand, you know, when you are self publishing, if you suddenly have a flare up, and you can’t do anything for three weeks, it doesn’t matter, you’re in control. Whereas if you have trouble, and you’ve got an external deadline, I feel a lot of pressure to meet that. And I don’t really like to go to someone and say, “Hey, I’m having trouble,” because it feels very personal. So that part is awkward for me.
Natasha Lipman
Yeah, how did you find your disabilities were managed within the process with a publisher? Because I’ve seen on Twitter recently, there’s been a lot of conversation about ableism and issues that people have been experiencing in the publishing industry while they live with a disability. And I’d love to hear your experiences with that and also what you think needs to change to make it a bit more accessible for other people?
Talia Hibbert
Well, my experiences have been positive, and I think that’s largely down to my agent. I think that, you know, I feel like everyone at the minute talks the talk with inclusivity, but I feel like she has been walking the walk. And I am always confident that I can express my needs to her, and she’s going to take it seriously and stand up for me, even when I’m awkward about it.
I definitely hide behind her frequently *Talia laughs* Like, “Help!” And she’s like, “Okay,” and goes off to do everything for me. So thank you, Courtney!
I feel like one of the key things is making sure that the people who are representing us, the people who are supposed to be in our corner are actually in our corner, and we’re on the same page. And obviously, one way to do that is to make the industry more inclusive in terms of disability.
I know that in publishing – because a lot of it is in London here, or New York in America – you know, I mean a place like London and New York, they’re not always super accessible. And they’re very expensive. And obviously, it’s harder to make money when you’re disabled. So those kind of barriers to entry are one of the many reasons I’m sure why there isn’t a lot of inclusivity in terms of disability and publishing. So that definitely needs to change.
And obviously, the pandemic has shown that you don’t need to be here or there to be able to do a job you can do things virtually, which I’m sure all of us would have loved to know before now that it could be done but okay. *laughter*
So, yeah, I think that’s important, but I’m lucky that I’ve had a really great time. I actually just recently, my publicist said, could I sign some books by this date? And I felt really terrible and awkward about it. But I also know that she’s really cool, so I felt comfortable saying, “Actually, I kind of can’t, like, I literally can’t.” And she was like, “Oh, okay, sorry. Just do them whenever you can.” And that was just such a relief. So it’s things like that, that have really made it a good experience. And I wish that everyone had those experiences.
Natasha Lipman
Yeah, I’m really glad you had such a great experience. And it would almost be awful considering how amazing your books are on disability representation to then know that behind the scenes, it wasn’t like that. *Talia laughs*
You know, I have friends who work for companies that on the outside were like, “We treat everyone amazingly! And we care about people!” and then they treated their staff terribly. *laughter* It’s one of those things where it’s like, *Natasha sighs with disappointment* “Damn!”
So I’d like to speak about Chloe a little bit if that’s okay. I was- I’ve never read a book like it, in the sense of like, I could identify with Chloe so much. And I could tell that someone had written this who understands chronic pain. But it was also for me, I think- the book’s called Get a Life, Chloe Brown, and I think the “Get a Life” side of it was so interesting for me, because I think it’s a process that I have definitely been through, of being so caught up in all of the scary things that were happening to my body, and then like learning how to build a life with it. And I’d love to kind of hear about how you started the process of developing Chloe, and just starting to tell her story.
Talia Hibbert
Chloe was definitely born of my own experiences, you know, with that kind of ‘theme’. It was a combination of, you know, there have been times when I’ve been housebound, which is not great for your social life. *Talia laughs* And when I was at university, I lived at home while I was at university, because my mum was my carer. And I didn’t always come in, I had a condensed timetable, because I couldn’t do that much. And you know, I’d make friends in lessons and they’d be like, “Oh, do you want to come to this or do that,” and I’d be like, “I can’t.” And for that reason, it was really hard for me to make friends.
And I was actually lucky, my boyfriend was at university at the same time, and he is my carer now. And when I went to visit him, he always made sure that I could do, you know, the university life things. But that was not that often. So overall, I felt like I kind of missed out on the experience everyone else was having. And I feel like chronic pain and disability, they do that a lot socially.
And then there’s also the element where you feel like you have a responsibility to manage your symptoms and manage your health. And obviously, it’s better for you if you do, but at the same time, you can’t always be the perfect person who’s doing everything in the healthiest way possible. It’s really boring and really limiting. And it makes you feel really dull.
So I kind of had to work on that balance. And I knew that other people must have had similar issues. And so it really made sense to me for Chloe to be at a point in her life where she’s like, “Okay, I feel like my health is kind of in a stable place. I’m doing as well as I can. But oh, look, everything else is just flat and non-existent, because I’ve been concentrating so hard on that.” So that was definitely kind of my inspiration. And the theme I wanted to lean on when it came to crafting her personal arc.
Natasha Lipman
And the other side of that, as well, there’s the reaction of other people to your pain: the people who want to help, the people who leave you, the people who make you feel as if there’s something wrong with you. And I think this was what was so- when I was reading the relationship arc, I went to my fiancé and I was like, “It’s like us! You made me not feel- you didn’t make me feel-” and he was like, “Okay.” *laughter*
I think that is something- you know, I remember a couple of years ago, when Dr. Phil came out with a thing that said, it was something like 100% of caregiving relationships fail and there was a big- *Talia: what?!* Yeah, it was like a whole thing. I used the hashtag at the time to complain about it. And I think it has been very interesting being on social media and, you know, not wanting to put my whole life on there, but being able to show that you can be in a healthy, loving, stable relationship with a disability. And there are really unique challenges that come with that- or not even challenges, there are really unique experiences that come with it, and being honest about that.
So I’d love to hear a bit about how you crafted the relationship plot in the story.
Talia Hibbert
Well, like I mentioned, my boyfriend is my carer now, and he has always been fine with that. And I’ve been fine with that. And my aunts have been together longer than I’ve been alive, and they have a caregiving relationship as well. So I feel like I’ve been lucky to see a lot of positive examples. And so I kind of knew how you know what I wanted Chloe to have, and the kind of relationships she deserved, and the kind of relationship I wanted to show people that we deserve.
And at the same time, I know how a lot of people are sceptical about that sort of thing. You know, when people find out that I have a boyfriend, especially when I’m using a mobility aid, they’re like, “What?! You must be a saint!” The incredulity is- *Talia laughs* *Natasha: Yep! That word is so true-* *laughter*
It’s like, “Well, not really, because I’m amazing,” *Talia laughs*
Natasha Lipman
But Chloe knows her worth! *Talia: Exactly!* that’s- even though she is going on this- I don’t like the word journey. Even though she is going on this journey of kind of figuring out what she wants her life to be. She always knows what she’s worth, even though she lost so much. And that’s a really lovely thing to be able to read.
Talia Hibbert
I feel like romance has the ability to act as a blueprint to show who is worthy of love, which, of course, is everyone. And that’s why romance has been so amazing for me. And so that’s something that I kind of wanted to do as well. And one easy way to do that is to make a character who you know, people can relate to, and have that character be aware that they’re amazing in a way that maybe in real life, we’re not always aware, because things get us down, you know. It’s good to be able to think of someone who is like you and be like, well, she knows that she’s incredible. So why can’t I be? So that was important for me.
Natasha Lipman
Yeah, and I think as well, one of the issues that I have with a lot of- not content necessarily, but like if I’m going to read something about an experience that’s like mine, I don’t like things that are really heavy handed about it. Where it doesn’t feel like it’s just part of her life instead of- does that make sense?
I think that’s what I appreciated about Chloe is like, she was a fully realised character who happened to live with pain and all those weird things that went along with it. And you know, her pyjamas, and the way she would move around the house, and just all of these small details that were there, but it wasn’t the point of the story. And I think that’s what makes these characters come to life.
I was wondering how you, I suppose- because she was kind of based on some of your experiences, was that an easy thing for you to do? To be able to pepper those small details in?
Talia Hibbert
I think so, but at the same time, when you kind of exist on the margins in any way and your writing, you know that the majority of people who read it are going to expect a certain level of performance. And I think that adds a lot of pressure. And maybe, that makes people second guess themselves. And I feel like a lot of the time that’s when things get heavy handed. But I’ve heard Olivia Dade talk about what she called incidental fat rep. She is a romance author who writes amazing body diversity. And I just really liked that because I feel like it perfectly describes how I like to write representation, you know, that it’s incidental, because that’s how it is in life. We all are who we are simply by chance. And it’s normal. And it’s that feeling of normality that’s important to me, because a lot of the time for various reasons, I am othered, and it’s very exhausting. And just kind of ridiculous. *Talia laughs* So I don’t like it in my books.
Natasha Lipman
I’d be curious, whether you- in your mind, or maybe neither- whether you were writing the book for someone who has experiences like Chloe or whether it partially was for people who might not have ever come across somebody who lives with pain. Is there an element of- with that pressure, feeling like you have to represent this experience to people who might not understand what it’s like to actually live with it.
Talia Hibbert
Because of that pressure, I kind of had to decide for myself early on who my priority was, in terms of who I was writing for. And I was writing for people who can relate to Chloe. Obviously, I want as many people as possible to read it. But I’m not writing for everyone, I’m writing for my people, for Chloe’s people. That’s my priority for that particular book.
And it was important to decide because I feel like you can tell the difference, you know, when you’re reading a book that’s for you, versus a book that’s a lesson about you. And I don’t like the latter. It just makes me feel like, “Ugh, okay, well, let me put this book down since it’s for- over there.” *Talia laughs* So I didn’t want to do that.
Natasha Lipman
So you just had a new book published, congratulations! How’s the response been?
Talia Hibbert
It’s been really lovely. I find it so hard to keep up with social media. But at the same time, I can’t stop because people are sending nice things. And I’m like, “Oh!!” and it makes me happy. *laughter* So I’ve been in a great mood ever since release day. *Talia laughs*
Natasha Lipman
It’s always nice when social media can be a lovely positive. *Talia: Yeah!*
So do you want to tell us a little bit about the book?
Talia Hibbert
Okay, so the book is called Act Your Age, Eve Brown. And it’s the last book in the Brown Sisters’ series. But I’m- yeah, it very much stands alone. And it’s about Eve, who is kind of the baby of her family. And she’s maybe a bit spoiled, but it really hides that she’s unsure about who she is and what she wants to do. And she feels very isolated socially, and kind of like she’s not good enough for all the super successful people in her family.
So she leaves home, and she tries to get the first job she comes across, so she has something she can succeed at. But that job is to work as a chef at a bed and breakfast in a small town run by Jacob, who is very demanding, very particular and does not like her at all. On sight. They are complete opposites and he is not impressed. And then to make matters worse, she kind of hits him with her car. *Talia laughs* So he really doesn’t like her!
But she breaks his arm. So, you know, now he needs her to work for him, because he can’t really do much himself at that point. So, they’re working together, and they’re kind of learning to understand each other. And once they get there, they realise that actually, they’re totally in love; yay! *laughter*
Natasha Lipman
So one of the things about the story is it’s an autistic romance. *Talia: Yay!* Yay!
How did you go about writing autism into the story?
Talia Hibbert
Well, I am autistic. And a lot of the time I write characters- you know, it’s harder for me to write characters who come off as not autistic, or not neurodivergent in some way. So when I was writing Eve, kind of at the start of the series, she was popping up in Chloe’s book, and I was like, “She’s super autistic! Oh, well!” *Talia laughs* “It happened, let’s roll with it!”
So I was actually really excited to get to her book. And I knew that I wanted her to have an autistic love interest as well, because I feel like a lot of the time in media autistic people are the odd one out, and they’re always isolated. And it’s all about how strange they feel. But in real life, we tend to kind of gravitate towards each other because we have such similar experiences of the world, and perspectives. So I kind of wanted to see that reflected in the book and also to show that it’s very precious to be with someone who can understand you in a certain way when you feel like most people don’t.
Natasha Lipman
And also, showing an autistic woman, and just a different experience of what that is, because there’s a very one dimensional view of what autism is in popular culture.
Talia Hibbert
Yeah, absolutely. So I really wanted to show that autistic people are different because I feel like the media stereotypes reinforce who is and isn’t isn’t diagnosed, which reinforces the stereotypes and it’s a cycle that actually harms a lot of people, especially multiply marginalised people. So showing diversity within autism was important to me as well.
Natasha Lipman
And I think the one of the biggest themes that I got through your books – and I was definitely thinking about this with Eve’s relationship as well – is just the importance of communication, but what that looks like for different people, and how you can kind of, you know, you can hate each other at the beginning and then you start learning to understand each other but it’s not just understanding each other. It’s about being able to be honest and open with other people. And how that can manifest for people?
How did you find working through those, like, writing the challenges that people had? And then how they came through all of them?
Talia Hibbert
Well, I’m- I don’t know why I write enemies, two lovers so often because it’s a really stressful experience for me. *laughter* I like people to be nice to each other. So I have to work really hard to find valid reasons for these two fundamentally decent people to hate each other. *Natasha: And to be mean to each other!* Exactly! *laughter*
It’s a lot easier for me to write them overcoming that, than it is for me to write them disliking each other. So I have to think very hard on that part. But once I get over that speed bump, then it’s plain sailing.
Natasha Lipman
I’d love to speak a little bit about writing advice, if that would be okay, because I got quite a lot of questions from people who are disabled or chronically ill and, you know, they struggle with pain and fatigue, and they want to write and they just don’t know how to start. So if you have any tips for beginners, I think that would be really helpful.
Talia Hibbert
Well, one thing is figure out what keeps your motivation up. So, the first book I ever wrote, it was really short, because I’d never finished anything before and I knew that demotivated me. And I was like, “Well, if I can’t finish a full novel, I need to write something I can finish and go from there.” And like, right now, in the pandemic, I know that, again, being able to finish something is what motivates me. So even though I’ve had so many changes that I need to make to my current work in progress, I’m not going back to do that, I’m just going to forge ahead to keep the fire burning.
Another thing is to kind of accept that you’re not going to be the stereotypical writer who sits at a desk and writes every day. And that’s okay. There are lots of different ways to write. A lot of the time when I’m writing, I’m actually lying in bed, like staring at the ceiling, thinking about things. And then I kind of see it play out in my head, or I speak it out loud. And then I might write it down, or some people like to voice record. And that is all just as valid as sitting there and typing it out. And you need to respect that part of the process.
Natasha Lipman
And actually the thinking part is actually really underrated. *Talia: mhmm!* *Talia laughs* I think people don’t recognise that, like, you know, just taking time away- Even if you’re doing something else, and not consciously thinking about what you’re doing, your brain is processing. *Talia: Yes!*
And sometimes, you know- I got to a point where I’m like, I know that if I try and force myself to write something, I might get words on the page, but it’s terrible. I might as well do something nice for myself, my brain will work on it in the background. And next time I sit down, like, I’ll get 10 times the amount done in half the time because I’m not trying to force something. And I’ve given myself time to process it.
Talia Hibbert
Absolutely. And I need to write that on my forehead, because I always forget. I get panicked, like about deadlines, and I’m like, “I’m gonna sit here and I’m gonna write this many words,” I write them, and they’re crap. And if I’d just taken like a two day break, I would have written the same amount of words, and they would have been useful. So always think. *Talia laughs* Always think first.
And then, you know, the other thing is to just give yourself- make sure it’s like something that you really want to do. So you can in the abstract, be like, I want to write a book, but make sure the actual scenes that you’re writing are exciting you, and make sure that you’re doing it in a way that feels good and doesn’t feel like a punishment.
You know, things are so much harder when you’re fatigued. And when you’re in pain, don’t underestimate that! You’re not living the same life other people are living. So you need to make- if you want to be consistent with something, you need to make it worth the while of your poor, abused brain. *laughter*
Natasha Lipman
And when it comes to writing characters that are based on experiences that you’ve got, do you have any advice on that because I think it can be very easy to write about yourself. And I even learned this from a blogging perspective. Like it’s very easy to write about yourself, but then it gets to a point where you also deserve to have your own privacy where you don’t have to kind of share everything about yourself and your life. So do you have any tips on how to find that balance?
Talia Hibbert
Yeah, I feel like there’s a lot of pressure when you are marginalised to, like, mine your marginalisation, right? Which is icky. But at the same time like everyone else, you always want to put little pieces of yourself in your work. And I like to think of it as kind of seeds, I choose particular very precise elements that I can relate to. And they’re just one flower in the garden of the character.
So like with Chloe, we both have fibromyalgia, we both have chronic pain. So I kind of thought, what are some of my funniest moments or coping mechanisms associated with that? And that’s what went into the book but everything else about her is just her. So while all of my main characters I feel have pieces of me, there’s none of them that are actually me. And that is important, because yeah, my story is mine.
Natasha Lipman
And also, I think there is this expectation – you hear this a lot, especially with more diverse authors, or artists in any form – where people are asked, like, is the character you? Which, you know, as opposed to you just it being a character that you have created with the seeds, as opposed to…
Talia Hibbert
I think it’s this idea that there can only be, you know, one– it’s like, when people ask me if I know this other black person, and it’s like, why? Why would I? *Talia laughs*
Natasha Lipman
To be fair, I’m Jewish. And when people ask if I know this Jewish person a lot of the time I do!
*laughter*
Talia Hibbert
But like, they’ll be like, “Oh blah blah,” and it’s like, no. Because they think that like, there can only be one or five or one family, like we’re not all autonomous beings living and existing in the world. So if you’ve written someone, it must be you because there’s only so many XYZ people in existence, right? *Talia laughs*
Natasha Lipman
Yeah. And I think that’s what’s great about having people with certain experiences telling these stories, because we all have unique experiences of whatever our lives are. And you know, even with Eve, you’ve got two different experiences of autism in the book.
Do you feel a pressure or responsibility writing these stories that comes from other people, in terms of, kind of, having to be the voice of certain issues, because you’re writing about them, or that people might view them as the authoritative experience.
Talia Hibbert
I never want to be the voice of anything, or anyone except myself. *Talia laughs* I went to school in a very white area. And a lot of the time I was the only person like myself in the room. And it’s really hard to be yourself when you’re the only you around, right?
So no, there’s loads of authors doing this. And I like to kind of be aware of those authors, because I tend to love the things that they’re writing as well. But also, because, you know, we’re all individuals. And it’s reassuring to know that I’m not the only one and I’m just adding to a chorus.
Because, you know, the more is out there, the more likely it is that someone will find something they can relate to. Not every autistic person is going to relate to or feel represented by any of the autistic characters I’ve written, right? But when you’ve got multiple characters being written by multiple authors – I’m thinking of like [unclear], Chloe Lee’s – then that’s the point where it starts to open up.
I always compare this to Disney Princesses, right? So when I was a kid, all my white friends could choose precisely which Disney Princess they were. And I- This was before The Princess and the Frog even came out. So I had to be Mulan. Because I was like, “Well, she’s not white?” *Talia laughs* And I mean, I love Mulan, she’s a banger, she’s the best. But what if I didn’t love Mulan? What would my option be? You know, Jasmine? Pocahontas? That’s it? And none of them were even black. And there was only one per ethnicity. What is that about? And it’s the same thing with books and representation. There should always be choices within choices.
Natasha Lipman
I love that. And I think that’s maybe a good place to end. *Talia laughs* On those lovely wise words. Thank you. I really appreciate your time. I loved reading your books. What are you working on? What can people be looking forward to from you?
Talia Hibbert
I’m writing a spinoff series from the brown sisters. It’s set in Sky Briar, which is the town where Eve’s book takes place. And it’s a series of rom-coms following the Montreux siblings, kind of based on my favourite Austen novels. And I’m also working on a young adult romance, which I’m very excited about.
Natasha Lipman
That’s exciting. Where can people find you online?
Talia Hibbert
I have a website, taliahibbert.com, and I’m on Twitter and Instagram @TaliaHibbert, and I’m also on Facebook, but no one seems to go on Facebook anymore. *laughter*
Natasha Lipman
Amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
Talia Hibbert
Thank you, I’ve had a great time. So thanks!
No matter what type of chronic pain or disability Talia might have, she has made a huge successful writing books and publishing them. I wish her the best of luck in her future books that she is writing.